Showing posts with label 1919. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1919. Show all posts

Wednesday, 20 October 2010

Evidence: Where Has the Post Gone?

Diligent JW apologist and defender, StandFirm, has been challenged to do the job the Governing Body should be doing, namely provide evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses alone are "the truth".

Optimistically, StandFirm had outlined the sort of case he was having to defend, this took the form of a blog post published on September 10th 2010. However, as of today (20th October) his blog hasn't been updated with any content. In fact, the only obvious activity on the blog is the deletion of said blog post.

However, here is a screengrab for posterity, along with a copy/paste of the text (hopefully this means that StandFirm is about to publish proof of the 1919 selection once and for all);


Appointment of the Faithful and Discreet Slave in 1919

As promised, here is a breakdown of the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses concerning their appointment over all of Christ's belongings in 1919. This post is not intended to discuss these points, but rather to outline the points that need to be proven to show that the Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses) were indeed appointed in this way in 1919.

1. That the faithful and discreet slave (Matthew 24:45-47) refers to a class of Christians.

2. That Jesus came in the sense in Matthew 24:46 in 1914.

3. That, if the first 2 points are true, that Jesus would actually have chosen the Bible Students.

4. That, if the first 3 points are true, that the historical evidence indicates that the prophecy of Malachi 3:1 began applying in 1918 and the Bible Students were chosen in 1919.

This is the outline used to arrive at that teaching. This post is not to discuss any of those points.

Incidentally, even if we were to imagine that the appointing over all Christ's belongings is future or does not apply, this still would have no bearing on whether or not the organization and Governing Body should have the same authority it had in the first century. It also has no bearing at all on other doctrines such as no Trinity, no immortality of the soul, and so on.

Further reading can be found in The Watchtower, March 1, 2004, pp. 13-18.

Tuesday, 11 May 2010

Question for Jehovah's Witnesses: Evidence?

The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, who represent the disparate group referred to as "the faithful and discreet slave", state that they alone speak for God on earth. They claim that the organisation they use to publish their doctrines, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Incorporated, a US-based publishing corporation, was chosen by Jesus Christ himself, in or around 1919, to represent God's Kingdom's interests here on earth, and to supply Christians with the only God-approved literature and teaching on the planet.

My question for Jehovah's Witnesses is this; in light of the extraordinary claim cited above, where is the extraordinary evidence?



Updated to address StandFirm's accusation;
StandFirm said...
Strawman. Please prove your point by quoting from our publications.

Which part of my statement is the strawman?

- 1919
- chosen by Jesus
- only God-approved literature

I'll have a go at establishing each claim via your publications and then I'll re-ask the question;

"The historical facts show that 1919 was the year when the remnant on earth of the 144,000 Kingdom heirs began to be freed from Great Babylon. In that year the message of God's established kingdom began to be preached from house to house and publicly by Jehovah's Christian witnesses in a fearless way. This preaching of the Kingdom as established in 1914 was in fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24:14: 'This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations." (Babylon the Great Has Fallen!, 1963, p. 515.) [emphasis added]

"TIME OF INSPECTION BY THE SLAVE'S MASTER
Without a question of doubt, it was a real time for inspection of the Master's "slave" class. All the facts of the case argue that the Master came for the work of inspection at the time. Such a thing was to be expected according to the prophecy of Malachi 3:1-5. Of course, the sectarian churches of Christendom had made a wartime record for themselves, an open record that had a heavy bearing on their claim to be disciples and slaves of Jesus Christ. Could they, by even their latest record down till 1919, prove that they themselves were the composite "faithful and discreet slave" class of the heavenly Lord and Master, Jesus Christ? He as Judge would indicate what his findings were by the way he thereafter dealt with the hundreds of religious sects of Christendom." (God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, 1973, p. 349.)[emphasis added]

"There would, however, be a further application of Joel 2:28-32. Indeed, this prophecy has had remarkable fulfillment since September 1919. At that time a memorable convention of Jehovah's people was held in Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A. God's spirit was clearly manifest, and his anointed servants were stimulated to embark on the global witnessing campaign that extends into the present day." (Watchtower, May 1, 1992, p. 13.)[emphasis added]

"Particularly in 1919 and 1922 were there modern outpourings of Jehovah's spirit, especially in connection with the two conventions of Jehovah's dedicated people at Cedar Point, Ohio." (Watchtower, June 1, 1981, p. 30.)[emphasis added]

"But Jehovah raised them up by his spirit and word of truth. Shortly thereafter, at their 1922 convention in Cedar Point, Ohio, they loyally determined to advertise the King and Kingdom. Jehovah has been guiding them since then, so that his name and kingdom have become known worldwide." (Watchtower, December 15, 1980, p. 19.) [emphasis added]

"Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" Watchtower 2009 Feb 15 p.27 [emphasis added]


In case there is any doubt that the Governing Body speaks on behalf of the "faithful and discreet slave";

"Similarly, today a limited number of anointed men have the responsibility of representing the slave class. They make up the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses." Watchtower June 15 2009 Page 24 [emphasis added]

And in case there's any doubt that the Governing Body using the Watch Tower Society to publish "spiritual food" on behalf of the "faithful and discreet slave" class;

"When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of “the faithful and discreet slave” at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13) The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. (Acts 15:6) What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." Watchtower 2010 July 15 pp.22,23 [emphasis added]


My question for Jehovah's Witnesses is this; in light of the extraordinary claim[s] cited above, where is the extraordinary evidence?